New to Podengos

Hi Podengo lovers,

I am new to Podengos – never actually met one, and joined here to find out exactly what I do want by those who live with these guys.

To introduce myself: I used to do lots of dog activities (obedience, herding, agility, tracking, therapy certification, event organizing, etc – but have not tried lure, yet!). However, I am less inclined to these kinds of organized events now, so I am interested in a "pet" rather than a competitor (I am also in an isolated area that would require too much traveling to be competitive). Therefore, I don’t need the strong drive that I used to treasure in a dog, but would enjoy ‘curiosity’ as a valuable training attribute. Additionally, I live in the Southwest, so heat tolerance is necessary.

I have been researching breeds for some time and have come to the conclusion that a Podengo would be just what I am looking for. I am seeking a fun, personable, responsive, loyal companion who plays well with others and enjoys hiking (sounds like a line for a dating site – haha). A dog that is clean and easy-groom would be a plus. I also like a dog who will enjoy a good laugh – and the podengo is apparently known for this. I have a cat, so less drive would please her as well.

While looks are not a priority, I am drawn to the spiky looks of the wire-haired podengos and I probably prefer a medio, although a grande is not out of the question. I would not be opposed to a fair amount of white in the coat either. Health and good structure, however, are important. I also prefer a male puppy.

All this being said, now is not THE time to bring a new puppy into my life. I will probably be ready about this time next year. I have an elderly dog who deserves all my attention right now. So I will just be window shopping until the time is right.

I look forward to meeting you all and learning more about Podengos!

All Podengos whether Pequeno or Medio are exceptionally loyal and affectionate. They have very keen sense of smell and good hearing, so they are excellent guardians. They bred naturally as what are known as endurance trotters - the medios in particular will bound and leap over rough terrain with remarkable speed and agility. So they are excellent walking companions, though as natural hunters they can be hard to retrieve if they scent potential prey - almost any small mammal or bird - whilst on the loose.

The ones that I know have all had soft but thick coats, which they shake vigourously and frequently, thus keeping clean. Sense of humour? Well Brando who looks like a Labrador puppy but has the spirt and soul of a Podengo, was once confronted with a ball lying between hin and another dog. Rather than grab it, he leapt sideways and spun around a few yards away. Whilst the other dog was following his move much more slowly, he swept back and gathered the ball. I would swear that he was smiling as he ran off with his trophy.

james ensor wrote:All Podengos whether Pequeno or Medio are exceptionally loyal and affectionate. They have very keen sense of smell and good hearing, so they are excellent guardians. They bred naturally as what are known as endurance trotters - the medios in particular will bound and leap over rough terrain with remarkable speed and agility. So they are excellent walking companions, though as natural hunters they can be hard to retrieve if they scent potential prey - almost any small mammal or bird - whilst on the loose.

The ones that I know have all had soft but thick coats, which they shake vigourously and frequently, thus keeping clean. Sense of humour? Well Brando who looks like a Labrador puppy but has the spirt and soul of a Podengo, was once confronted with a ball lying between hin and another dog. Rather than grab it, he leapt sideways and spun around a few yards away. Whilst the other dog was following his move much more slowly, he swept back and gathered the ball. I would swear that he was smiling as he ran off with his trophy.

Thanks for feeding my vicarious experience of these dogs, James!

What do the wire-haired podengo feel like? I will need to head to some events so I can find out first hand. I assume they will be posted here if any are planned....?

I am unable to load photos to this site, but this link will show you various Podengos in their natural sate in the Cape verde islands. Some have obviously been crossed with labradors and others may have crossed with other types of dog. http://www.capeverdeinfo.org.uk/cape_verde_pets.htm.

Vlekkie is a reasonably pure example of a rough-haired Podengo Pequeno, with all the beautiful temperament and spirit of these dogs. He was killed but whilst alive his coat was much thicker and stronger than that of the other Podengo types in the islands. Not really rough so much as thicker.

james ensor wrote:I am unable to load photos to this site, but this link will show you various Podengos in their natural sate in the Cape verde islands. Some have obviously been crossed with labradors and others may have crossed with other types of dog. http://www.capeverdeinfo.org.uk/cape_verde_pets.htm.

Vlekkie is a reasonably pure example of a rough-haired Podengo Pequeno, with all the beautiful temperament and spirit of these dogs. He was killed but whilst alive his coat was much thicker and stronger than that of the other Podengo types in the islands. Not really rough so much as thicker.

This is such a crazy story - poisoning dogs, even family dogs in their own yards. It does not compute.

Is Jet living with you? What other dogs do you have with you? Do you return to CVI?

[quote="J@n3t"]

james ensor wrote:I am unable to load photos to this site, but this link will show you various Podengos in their natural sate in the Cape verde islands. Some have obviously been crossed with labradors and others may have crossed with other types of dog. http://www.capeverdeinfo.org.uk/cape_verde_pets.htm.

Vlekkie is a reasonably pure example of a rough-haired Podengo Pequeno, with all the beautiful temperament and spirit of these dogs. He was killed but whilst alive his coat was much thicker and stronger than that of the other Podengo types in the islands. Not really rough so much as thicker.

BTW, are you "Jamie an American dog lover who was protecting them in Murdeira at the time, was willing to pack in a hurry and fly with them, as far as Lisbon"?

No but I am a good friend of hers. This is Jet in the picture used as an Avatar. She and her sister Niki are both now living happily in Nuremberg, Germany after a complicated and adventurous journey. Brando who looks like a Labrador puppy but has the spirit,speed and agility of a Podengo lives with us in London but flies out with us every winter to Cape Verde.

He introduced us to Podengos. Normally disdainful of smaller dogs, he became fascinated and attracted to a small long-haired dog at the vets. On enquiry we were told that it was a Podengo Pequeno rough-coated. But Brando evidently knew what it was already.

I would never call a podengo a low drive dog , they are every bit as high drive of a dog as what you used to work with.

The two I have can work circles around most standard high energy dog.

I honestly don't see where a podengo would be the perfect fit for what you want. They are still bred to be working dogs and a job they do need.

[quote="Brokenhalterfarm"]I would never call a podengo a low drive dog , they are every bit as high drive of a dog as what you used to work with.

Thank you, BHF.

Is there a range of drive in the breed or are podengos (basically) all high drive? An experienced breeder can predict this in a litter of puppies in an adult dog. Would I not be able, for example, find a puppy that rates an average of "3" in a puppy temperment test?

I am perhaps just as new to Podengos as you. I know little or nothing about the breeders in the US or UK. But I do believe that this is quite a recent phenomenon. I doubt whether in their native Portugal anybody even considers paying for a puppy. Many must still breed in the wild.

My knowledge comes from the Cape Verdes, former Portuguese colony, and now one of the few countries in the world that has a Marxist Government but in which the population is pro-American. Hilary Clinton is a frequent visitor when Air Force One refuels after an African trip, for there are more Cape Verdeans , today, in Rhode Island and Massachussets than in the home islands. These people must have brought Podengos with them to New England.

What I have seen is Podengo Pequenos and Podengo Medios, clearly crossed as they always were, with other species that shared their territory. They live in an incredibly harsh environment where only the fittest and canniest survive to more than a year old. The rest are either poisoned or fail to win in the fight for food.

Food now in these islands comes from the tables of tourists, So survival depends upon cuteness. The ability, seemingly inborn, to sit quietly with an incredibly sad expression on their faces, until some tourist, often female takes pity on them is the key to survival. That and the ability to grab food put out for cats, before any other dog gets to it.

The reason I explain all this is that I believe these were the conditions (aside from the benevelrent tourists) which existed in Portugal until maybe 50 years ago. This is the environment that naturally selectedt the surviving dogs. I would therefore suggest that their drive is absolutley unsurpassed by almost amy other breed - and you can see it today in their efforts to chase the North American grey squirrels ( particularly evident this year in London) or their ability to drive other dogs away from any randomly jettisoned food.

If you are looking for a tough, intelligent, determined yet loyal dog you cannot beat a Podengo Medio. in my opinion. The smaller Pegquenos are very cute, but perhaps not so feisty. Of course, these characteristics may be being bred out of the dogs that do not have to fight for survival.

By a dog with less drive, I mean one that is laid back.

Maybe "laidback" is not possible to find in podengos. I am very interested in a "tough, intelligent, loyal dog" who plays well with others.

Once domesticated, even the wild dogs come tp apprecioate soft furnishimngs rather than having to dig their own bed on the beach to get the cool of the sea water. They will lie happily for hours, calm and apparently nearly comatose but always alert and on guard. Outside though, they are hunters. They only bark at perceived threats.

As originally essentially pack animals they play well with other dogs - although being perhaps disdainful of smaller and slower lap dog types.

james ensor wrote:Once domesticated, even the wild dogs come tp apprecioate soft furnishimngs rather than having to dig their own bed on the beach to get the cool of the sea water. They will lie happily for hours, calm and apparently nearly comatose but always alert and on guard. Outside though, they are hunters. They only bark at perceived threats.

As originally essentially pack animals they play well with other dogs - although being perhaps disdainful of smaller and slower lap dog types.

This more of what I had in mind when I started condisering this breed....

[quote="J@n3t"]

Brokenhalterfarm wrote:I would never call a podengo a low drive dog , they are every bit as high drive of a dog as what you used to work with.

Thank you, BHF.

Is there a range of drive in the breed or are podengos (basically) all high drive? An experienced breeder can predict this in a litter of puppies in an adult dog. Would I not be able, for example, find a puppy that rates an average of "3" in a puppy temperment test?

Adendum: Just so we are all understanding each other, I don't equate drive with energy. I expect a young podengo to have high energy. By drive, I mean the intensity to do a task; single-mindedness. This is what I look for when I want a dog that will be competitive.

I want a dog that can will be welcome everywhere and go on hikes with me, but be relaxed and happy. Doesn't need to win or be alpha. I am looking for a fun companion with a good sense of humor. I am on this forum to find out if the podengo could be a good match.

If this is not the right breed, I do want to know. So far, I like their looks and I like what James says about them. BHF has given me something to think about. I am in no hurry at all, so I will stick around and attend a few events next summer.

I have a long history for taking in rescued dogs. I have not seen podengos identified as needing rescue outside of the CVI. It seems a bit far (shipping on an airline) to rescue from off the coast of Africa to Arizona, but I am just in the "thinking about it" stage anyway.

All of what you ask is I believe available from the Podengo Medio and perhaps also from the closely related Podenco Andalusian. There are dogs that would love to be rescued from Cape Verdes, where you cannot get anyone to take a dog that is in mortal danger. There are also dogs in Spain and Portugal that would love to live in the US.

But you are right. It is a long flight - direct to Logan or Newark and then on to Las Vegas or Phoenix. We have assisted in bringing four dogs from Cape Verde through Lisbon and know the ropes. Jamie is currently in Lisbon and would help onbound to the US. She is from San Diego, which cannot be too far away from you. But first we would have to find an attractive dog and see whether it appeals to you.

You enquire about tolerance to extremes of heat and cold. I may be be able to give some guidance at least as to heat. The Cape Verdes are at 15N latitude so in October the sun is directly overhead at midday. Before the Trade Winds set in afternoon temperatures can reach 40C or 105F. None of the dogs like this and they find shade under pick-up trucks (SUVs)or behind walls. Some dogs living wild that are unsuited to sun die at this time.

The Podengo types with their thicker coats seem to have some protection against sunshine. Jet the black dog in the Avatar obviously sufferred most. But although Podengos as a rule do not like to swim, they would search out any pools of rain water or sea water and immerse themselves up to their necks, afterwards easily shaking the water off their strong coats. I guess that the Pequenos, some of which have thick wire coats dislike heat more than the generally smooth coated Medios. Beano/barbos a white coloured very lean medio type actually seemed to like the sun amd would line in it. You can read his astonishing story on http://www.capeverdeinfo.org.uk/cape_verde_pet_dog_beano.htm

As for cold tolerance, I cannot say, but the mountains of northern Portugal are snow covered in winter and dogs still live wild in this area, in the cork oak and eucalyptus forests. I believe that the packs may huddle together for warmth. when there is snow about.

james ensor wrote:All of what you ask is I believe available from the Podengo Medio and perhaps also from the closely related Podenco Andalusian. There are dogs that would love to be rescued from Cape Verdes, where you cannot get anyone to take a dog that is in mortal danger. There are also dogs in Spain and Portugal that would love to live in the US.

But you are right. It is a long flight - direct to Logan or Newark and then on to Las Vegas or Phoenix. We have assisted in bringing four dogs from Cape Verde through Lisbon and know the ropes. Jamie is currently in Lisbon and would help onbound to the US. She is from San Diego, which cannot be too far away from you. But first we would have to find an attractive dog and see whether it appeals to you.

Hi James,

I WOULD like to rescue my next dog and I will consider a CVI podengo - their plight makes them high priority. Additionally, I would be happy to drive to San Diego to pick up a dog.

However, right now I have an elderly dog who needs to be an only dog (she doesn't like other dogs much), but has rarely had the opportunily to be this. I want to grant her this special wish at this time in her life. I will spend this time learning and making sure a podengo and I would be a good match. BHF has not scared me off, but I do need to be a good listener if I am going to benefit from being on this forum. I came here to meet people experienced with podengos to this end.

Adendum: Just so we are all understanding each other, I don't equate drive with energy. I expect a young podengo to have high energy. By drive, I mean the intensity to do a task: single-mindedness. It is more like ‘ambition’ than ‘energy’.

An example of a dog with drive is Cooper, a 5-year-old black lab. He has been nearly crippled by very poor structure since before he was a year old. Yet, despite obvious discomfort, he begs anyone and everyone to throw his ball for him to retrieve. My heart is always torn between giving him what he lives for (psychic pain) and not causing him physical pain. Cooper otherwise has a normal level of energy for a dog his age.

I would prefer a companion with flexible interests. A dog that is welcome just about everywhere I go b/c of good manners and affability. I expect energy, but I am not seeking a highly driven dog.

I hope BHF weighs in again with her/his experience…

[quote="J@n3t"]

james ensor wrote:All of what you ask is I believe available from the Podengo Medio and perhaps also from the closely related Podenco Andalusian. There are dogs that would love to be rescued from Cape Verdes, where you cannot get anyone to take a dog that is in mortal danger. There are also dogs in Spain and Portugal that would love to live in the US.

But you are right. It is a long flight - direct to Logan or Newark and then on to Las Vegas or Phoenix. We have assisted in bringing four dogs from Cape Verde through Lisbon and know the ropes. Jamie is currently in Lisbon and would help onbound to the US. She is from San Diego, which cannot be too far away from you. But first we would have to find an attractive dog and see whether it appeals to you.

Hi James,

I had another thought on this topic. I have a cat. Do you think that a feral dog rescued by me from the CVI would be more inclined to harm her? This is one reason that I want less drive in a dog.

I have some difficulty differentiating drive from energy. Niki one of the Cape verde Podengo crosses, who could only plod lamely behind us when we met her half-starved and weak, eventually became tirelsss. On a Devon beach in south-west England she would pursue airborne seagulls for hours on end. Typically she would run flat out for a quarter of a mile, head craned upwards, easily keeping pace with the birds which were flying at an altitude of twenty feet. Then she would rest for a little until the next burst of energu and set off in the opposite direction, head craned up. She did this well past dusk into the gloom and we were unsure how we would retrieve her. Of course, there are no seagulls in the Cape Verdes.

You can see Niki - she wore this name of a medallion around her neck but we could never discover who put it there - on http://www.capeverdeinfo.org.uk/cape_verde_dog_rescue.htm The picture above entitled Becky is a classic Cape Verde podengo as they have evolved on the islands.

Brando lived with a Portuguese friend before he could cone to England after rabies clearance. The friend had a favourits cat and they got on well. Brando mostly was tied up under a sunshade at the gate whilst the cat had the run of the house. Now he will only chase a cat that runs away, and I think that most Podengos would distinguish friend from foe if they lived with a cat. They seem to have a lot of intelligence.

Brando lived with a Portuguese friend before he could cone to England after rabies clearance. The friend had a favourits cat and they got on well. Brando mostly was tied up under a sunshade at the gate whilst the cat had the run of the house. Now he will only chase a cat that runs away, and I think that most Podengos would distinguish friend from foe if they lived with a cat. They seem to have a lot of intelligence.

I think "drive" is open for discussion, I just know that I understand it as a cometitive, single-minded intensity separate from energy level. I have had low energy dogs with strong drive and high energy dogs with weak drive. I would like a balanced dog that has enough complience to be allowed freedom to exercise as much as s/he needs in safe places off lead, but be quiet and well mannered inside and does not need to do a specific activity incessently.

Although my cat's name is Grendel,she has never used her claws on a dog, which might earn her more respect. She has grown up with dogs though and knows that if she runs, they will chase. She also has a little cat door which offeres her the sanctuary of the garage. Despite her name, she is a sweet girl who was rescued from death's door.

http://www.capeverdeinfo.org.uk/cape_verde_dog_rescue.htm

I am starting a petition and asking anyone who is an animal lover or anyone who wants to see some sort of humane animal control introduced to sign it.I will submit it to the mayor and hopefully with enough signatures it will put pressure on him to introduce the following measures. To provide funding for a responsible programme of neutering. To Stop the use of poison for killing animals. To introduce a heavy fine to anyone caught poisoning animals. To donate some land for an animal sanctuary This may be a tough task and many may say not a hope,but if we all work together and create a pressure group and KEEP up that pressure then something may be done. I get sick to my stomach every time I hear of someone who has experienced their pet suffering, sometimes for days from Strychnine Poisoning, so please lets change this."

I used to do "good pet ownership" in classrooms. I took my amazing fox terrier, who could do anything asked of her. I would do some activites with the kids to teach them how to be responsible owners. The the kids would line up and take a turn asking my little dog would do what ever trick they thought of. The kids loved it and I hope they maintained some of what I told them. I also did a 4-H group.

I am talking about this b/c instilling values in kids is a good way to keep changes going. Maybe educational offerings could also be included on the list. Once someone sees these dogs as sentient beings (even if they don't hear that term), it is harder to hurt them.

Sadly nothing like this exists in Cape Verdes. Packs of kids will scream at individual dogs for fun. Initially the dogs do not react. But eventually they are provoked into barking or lunging. This scares the hell out of the kids. The dogs learn to bark on sight at a noisy kid. Mothers object and react by throwing stones at the dogs or hitting them with brooms. The dogs learn to fight back.

Dogs in the Iberian culture are usually viewed as guardians rather than pets. They can be chained all day in the hot sun: sometimes they are surrounded by their own excrement. One can observe puppies that start life as sweet creatures become brutalised by their treatment. Sometimes they escape from their prisons. Sometimes they are rescued by expatriates. Often they prefer a semi-wild existence to being chained in a bare yard. Then they are free to breed extensively and become wary of humans.

The Peace Corps is doing a sterling job teaching kids English: perhaps some could be persuaded to teach about animals, also.

james ensor wrote:Sadly nothing like this exists in Cape Verdes. Packs of kids will scream at individual dogs for fun. Initially the dogs do not react. But eventually they are provoked into barking or lunging. This scares the hell out of the kids. The dogs learn to bark on sight at a noisy kid. Mothers object and react by throwing stones at the dogs or hitting them with brooms. The dogs learn to fight back.

Dogs in the Iberian culture are usually viewed as guardians rather than pets. They can be chained all day in the hot sun: sometimes they are surrounded by their own excrement. One can observe puppies that start life as sweet creatures become brutalised by their treatment. Sometimes they escape from their prisons. Sometimes they are rescued by expatriates. Often they prefer a semi-wild existence to being chained in a bare yard. Then they are free to breed extensively and become wary of humans.

The Peace Corps is doing a sterling job teaching kids English: perhaps some could be persuaded to teach about animals, also.

Unfortunately, cuelty is intercultural, as is compassion (fortunately). It is easy enough to interweave awareness of the dogs plight by weaving English language learning with choice of topics for English practice (verbal and written). I wonder if Peace Corps have a specific curriculum or if it is developed by individual workers...?

I seriously suggest you get on facebook and get to some of the Podengo specific pages and talk to breeders about them.

I'm seeing some information tossed around that just contradicts everything I've come to know about Podengos.

They are working dogs first and independent working dogs at that. They run in packs therefore they are NOT relying on the handler very much.
While they are brilliant dogs , they are not easy dogs. The breed description lists them as having feral tendencys and thats so very true.
Outside of a pack they are known to have issues with strange dogs and people , they arent in your face friendly dogs unless they are extremely well socialised.

Both my pequeno and medio came with a lot of behavorial issues , however it should be noted I was not either of theirs first home.